Celebrity Interview: Grant Bowler!

The Australian Fast Bowler

To many people, Grant Bowler will soon become known as Nolan, on the upcoming Syfy original series ‘Defiance’, but to this little Aussie kid, he’ll always be known as the ill-fated Constable Wayne Patterson on the hit Australian show ‘Blue Heelers’, nearly 20 years ago. Since then, he has bowled us all over (groan-worthy pun intended) by going from strength to strength, from a guest spot on ‘LOST’, through to starring as Richard Burton opposite Lindsay Lohan’s Elizabeth Taylor in ‘Liz & Dick’. Mr. Bowler epitomizes the term “Professional”, before the interview officially started I gained a sense of Grant’s easy going nature and yet again I have been blessed with another generously honest interview from one of my personal industry icons. This is Part One of our conversation.

AW: G’day, thanks for taking the time to chat with me, especially at a point in your career which must surely be a highlight, your first leading-man role in a US TV Series, 'Defiance', which has an interactive MMO attached  could you tell us a little bit about Nolan- more specifically, what sorts of layers are you as the actor adding onto the character compared to what was already written? I understand you developed the character during the early game-building stages?

GB: Well, when I came on board… See, this is a really interesting confluence of events… You down in Oz, or Kiwiland (New Zealand, Grant’s birthplace) might “get it”, but, they’d been chasing me for the job for several months, and it wasn’t that I was playing hard to get, it’s just I wasn’t in town, I couldn’t do it. I was in Perth (Australia) the first time it came around shooting ‘the Great Mint Swindle’, and the second time it came around I was on the Race, ‘The Amazing Race’, and I thought ‘ahhh, this thing’s gonna go away’, you know, it’ll disappear, coz there’s that many actors in LA, there’s a hundred and ten thousand SAG actors in LA, jobs don’t hang around long when you’re not in town. Anyway, I got back and the thing was still open, um, and it was a really good pilot, but I had problems with it. It was more like a movie than a “pilot”. The problem for me was that it finished, I really dug the character, and a lot of the dynamics, but it was just a bit too done for me.

Anyway, in between the times where I couldn’t come in, Rockne O’Bannon, who was responsible for 'Farscape'- shot in Sydney, one of his other pilots got picked up, so he left ‘Defiance’ to go do this pilot and they brought Kevin Murphy on, now, the day I went back into town and met them… Jet-lagged and just buggered, and-uh, 'coz I knew I was running out of time on this project; it was actually Murphy’s very first day. So I come in, and he had an empty office, it was the strangest meeting with a show runner I’ve ever had. There was a couple of cardboard boxes and a chair, there was- He’d just thrown out the script, He had no script, uh, Scott Stewart was there, who directed the pilot- Epic guy, I have nothing but respect for him; and the two of them started the meeting, we shook hands, and Kevin was hopping up and down, and he says “I have to tell you, I’m the world’s biggest ‘Outrageous Fortune’ fan.

AW: (Eyebrows rise up) Ah, ok, random!

GB: The first words that came out of my mouth were “How the hell did you get your hands on ‘Outrageous Fortune’?!” Like, where did that come from, he must’ve been the only executive in the United States who’s ever seen ‘OF’. And he said “No, I’m a massive fan, I’ve seen every episode, I loved Wolf (Grant’s character), Wolf was my fave, and it was funny because if I had gone in the week before, Rockne would have still been in charge and the character and maybe the tone of the show might be very, very different. But, Kevin being the huge ‘OF’ fan that he was, he said to me; “I’m so excited about the idea of you playing this role because I loved that “darkness” and that humour you guys had in ‘OF’ and that’s where I want to go, I want to go a darker tone, a much darker world than the original pilot”- And that right away interested me, because that’s territory that I feel very comfortable in, that I think is different to a lot of what you see on TV. Characters are extremely imperfect, extremely flawed… I always get driven crazy by those characters, especially on network on TV, where they manage to say and do the appropriate things…

AW: Solve the crime neatly by the end, with a little bow?

GB: Yep, that drives me nuts, and in doing it they never blow up, they never lose faith, they’re just these kinda stoic, perfect people… I don’t know them in my real life, you know, I gotta screw something up 9 times before I get it right. But I just can’t recognize these characters, so, I think that was the big thing for me, Kevin knew what I loved doing. He’d seen my work on ‘True Blood’ and ‘Betty’, but because he’d seen ‘OF’ he knew the territory I really like exploring, and that was key. Him and Scott, and I sat down and they pitched me what they wanted to write but they didn’t have it, they didn’t even have an outline, they sent me that 4 days later- not only did they not have an outline, they hadn’t even run one past the studio, so they had no idea if they were going to be allowed to do what they wanted to do, at the end of the meeting we shook hands, and we said “OK, let’s have a crack at this”,  and they took everything we talked about to the network and the studio and it got green lit, Kevin wrote it and we then started down that path. So, that was a bit of a situation to be in that I could never have predicted, if I had been on the job the week before that wouldn’t have been the same case. It was just one of those things that happened and I was really fortunate, Mark Stone, who’s the head of SYFY, in terms of new drama, he asked me to come in to one of the studio sets and test with the actors who are going to come on the show, I got to have a level of input that I never would have dreamed of – I just never would have expected to be given- not in this business over here, so, it’s been really interesting. It’s been a lot more creative than often times being #1 on a show.

AW: Does the role of Leading-Man status bring a sense of adrenaline to your craft, than something smaller than, perhaps, your ‘Ugly Betty’ role?

GB: I think I just feel a much higher degree of responsibility and accountability for what we’re making. It’s easy to put your hand up and say you want more input but if you get given it, geez, you better work your arse off to make sure it bares through… It’s a massive project, I think it’s something like $100million split between the game and the show.

AW: Eek, ok, so you’ve got a lot riding on your shoulders then, aye mate?

GB: Yeah, it’s a bit different to what I’ve had before; it’s interesting when you talk about smaller roles… I’ve been so lucky in the States, the first job I got was a thing called ’12 Miles of Bad Road’- it got killed in the writer’s strike (never made it to air)- but it was still an incredibly prestigious thing for me to get on, it had Lily Tomlin, Gary Cole, Mary Kay Place… Just some amazing people on it, and then I ended up doing that and ‘LOST’ at the same time, one show in LA, one in Honolulu simultaneously, and from ‘LOST’; ‘Betty’ and then ‘TB’, and what it gave me, even though the roles were kind of increasingly longer-term and better, if you like, what it gave me was this wonderful pedigree in the States, that I had actually never had in Australia, I had been on all these really awesome projects and people kind of look at that here, you can come out of ‘Bold and the Beautiful’ and there’s no problem with that in the United States. I’ve been fortunate enough to be hired by really good Show-Runners on shows that had all won Golden Globes, and Emmys and all been really successful, and that makes a big difference, and I honestly… I found sitting around a table doing table-reads at ‘True Blood’ more intimidating than anything else I’ve ever done in my life. 

AW: Oh really?

GB: I remember the episode 4 table read… in season 3, there was 2 Academy Awards, about 14 Emmys, maybe 16- and half a dozen Golden Globe winners sitting around the table.

AW: You were in good company then.

GB: Yeah, and everybody brings their A-Game to a table read on ‘TB’, because Alan’s (Alan Ball) sitting there and if he sees something really good he’ll re-write to it. So, it’s uh- it’s the best kind of blood-sport, a table read on ‘TB’, I loved it. Having said that, ‘Defiance’ is a level of responsibility and there’s a whole new level of terror because it’s my head on all the billboards…

AW: 150ft on the side of the Marriott at comic-con?

GB: (laughs) Yep… We’re on the side of another hotel on Hollywood Boulevard at the moment… That’s kind of exciting, I like that pressure.

AW: As you say you popped up on a lot of genre shows, I was beginning to think you were becoming the new Mark Sheppard…

GB: Mark Sheppard!? How so?!

AW: I dunno, I’d just be watching all these shows, ‘TB’, ‘LOST’, ‘GCB’ and suddenly you’d appear in all these places, just like him, and then he got permanent employment (Supernatural), and now you have, but I want to talk about your first professional job- ‘Blue Heelers’, did you ever wonder why there were so many criminals in such a small town as ‘Mount Thomas’?

GB: (laughs) I love talking about ‘BH’… Especially the first bit, I always remember one of the first shots was I get pulled up driving into town, I think it was by Maggie (Lisa McCune) or Nick (William McInnes), I get pulled over on the side of the road and there’s the ‘Mt Thomas’ sign, and the population at that point was about ten thousand, but in the course of ‘BH’ we had a salt mine, we had several hospitals and airports- We just kept developing infrastructure, so that town- in the end- had the best public amenities, and the most productive industry, there was an abattoir, honestly, it had more industry in it than the United States.

AW: (laughs) It made for good story telling, in the very least.

GB: I remember we done one episode, I think it was only the first season, and Bill McInnes and I just lost it, in the first draft of the script Ninjas came to Mt Thomas.

AW: Ninja!?

GB: It got thrown out, but there were these kinds of black-hooded figures, and they were doing stuff and attacking, Bill and I were like “we’ve gone from 10,000 to Ninjas in less than a season, we’ve got to be careful here” and we had a word with the writing department and they said “I dunno, maybe” – but yeah, that town just kept growing. I understand every time someone drove past the town-sign the population kept going up.

AW: I’m pretty certain that was the case.

(AW: Disclaimer- The following section took place at the beginning of our conversation, before the interview officially began, and has been placed here for continuity’s sake.)

AW: As I mentioned, ‘BH’ was your first professional job, if not your first lead role.

GB: And who was the lead in that?

AW: That would have to be John Wood.

GB: You know it’s funny, ‘Heelers’ was probably the best thing that ever happened to me, I haven’t told anyone this story in a long-long time, but I was determined that I was never going to act in front of a camera. The reason for that was I had done 2 ads right after finishing drama school; one before I started with the Shakespeare company- one at the end of the first season, and those times I had such a miserable experience in front of the camera. I got told to do so many takes, one ad I remember there wasn’t a shot that was under 24-takes, and being a young actor I thought every single take was my fault- I wasn’t told any different, they’d just come give me notes- I found it so soul-crushing, I was getting it wrong so many times, all these people standing around, all this money and, uh, by the time I finished the second ad I swore I was never going to work in front of a camera again. By the end of the second season of the Shakespeare company I was broke- just busted up and broke, and the pilot for ‘Heelers’ came up and I did it because I thought it wouldn’t go to series. (Both laugh). And of course it did (13 seasons) - I struggled to… I didn’t feel confident in front of the camera- it gave me my apprenticeship, it taught me everything I needed to know. It was a good job for me, it was a difficult one because I felt so out of place, but it started everything for me in terms of working in front of the camera.

(AW: Back to our interview in real-time.)

AW: Since ‘BH’ you’ve been killed off many shows, but being your first professional television role, did it make you sad to leave as much as it made us to watch it with the rain and the car and the tears?

GB: I left ‘Heelers’, I left over a lot of objections and a lot of really good-will, especially from Hal McElory who had hired me and wanted me to stay… I was, geez, I was 25, 26 at the time, I just had so much going me at that point, and ‘Heelers’ as successful as it was, and great of an apprenticeship as it was, I wanted more, I wanted to be playing different roles, be doing different things. We shot 40 episodes a year, there really wasn’t any time to do anything but ‘BH’, I just felt like I needed to move on, I was frustrated. In the beginning the character (Wayne Patterson) was kinda- he had a lot more to do, when, you know, he had his Wife, there was a lot more story wise for him, in the end I kinda felt like he was wandering around the background looking for evidence, and I just wanted to bite off more, I’ve always been a bit restless that way. I’ve actually left a lot, in the past, and not on bad terms, just, you know “ok, I feel like I’ve done this now”, and Acting is a funny thing, if you can’t keep it up, if you can’t find a reason to get up for a role, you’ll start doing it badly, and I felt like that was starting to happen.

AW: After your 3 years on BH, You moved on next to Medivac, from a Bold Cop to a Bald Doc, which did you have more fun with… Chasing baddies, or playing with fake blood and guts?

GB: (laughs) Nice call, mate… I loved ‘Medivac’; I was always disappointed it wasn’t more of a success. You know, Tony Cavanaugh is such a good writer, I remember at one point he wrote me a three page monologue... There was a scene where I sang ‘Son of a Preacher Man’ over a dead guy on the side of a hill, he was a really brave writer, I really loved doing his stuff. It was an opportunity to act stuff I didn’t know how to do, and big operatic stuff for an Actor, and on camera, how often in an Australian drama do you get the opportunity to lock-down a 3 page monologue on and try to make it work on camera? It just didn’t click with audiences and that’s fine. That’s alright; you roll your dice and take your chances. But I loved Medivac.

AW: Glad I threw that question in then.

GB: No one ever asks about it.

AW: My memory is vague but I do remember you were bald.

GB: I loved the role, it actually set up something for me that I’ve done ever since, and that is I cherry-pick my roles- when I looked at the character description on Arch Craven (Medivac character), they described him completely outwardly; bald head, earrings, motorbike pants, rode motorbike, plays drums in a rock band. I always look for those things- Cooter on ‘TB’ was another one, I look for those roles because I find when you go in to play them you’ve got almost open-slather on how you fill them in.

AW: Blue Heelers, All Saints, Always Greener- in the first 10 years of your career you were in some of the biggest Australian dramas, but you also mentioned the cult favourite ‘Farscape’, was this your first experience with CGI and blue screens? How did you find it, was that a good learning curve for doing ‘Defiance’ now?

GB: ‘Farscape’ came up, I was broke, did it, it was great because my mates were on it, Claudia Black and Anthony Simcoe, and that was cool, but I hated it. I absolutely hated it because of all the make-up and the prosthetics and the mucking around of it, after ‘Farscape’ I swore I wouldn’t do Science Fiction again, and I didn’t not until ‘Defiance’.

AW: Nope, I can refute that- you did ‘The Lost Word’…

GB: Ahhh, that was the Dinosaur show, I kinda consider that period.

AW: (laughs)

GB: Even on ‘TLW’… I shouldn’t be telling people this, but it’s time I came clean. I said to them “Hey, I think this guy has a beard or a goatee or a moustache, I can’t remember what I told them, and they’re like “OK!” and I said “I think he has a hat and a monocle, or glasses” effectively I tried to cover up my face as much as I could (laughs)

AW: (shocked and appalled- jokingly) That’s not cool, Grant! Do you know how much I love that show! (Laughs)

GB: Man, I was just trying to hide my head.

AW: (laughs) ‘The Lost World’, was one of those shows that seemed to have every working Australian actor of the day guest starring, were Aus-USA co-produced shows like ‘Farscape’ and ‘TLW’ your stepping stone into the US market, or at the time were you too focused on your career down here?

GB: I was told at the time that you couldn’t- and we’re going back 12-14 years, so not that long ago in the scheme of things, but back then you were told as an Actor that you don’t go to the US unless you were invited, and if you hadn’t done something that propelled you over there by the time you were 30 don’t go, it’s too late. Those were the 2 golden rules. And the only guy I knew who had broken those rules was Anthony LaPaglia, he came over cold and just ground it out himself and that’s why he was a mentor for me when I came over. So I didn’t think you were allowed to go over until you got that entrée movie or whatever that brought you. In the end I got really pissed off and frustrated and just decided to go anyway. I had done ‘On the Beach’, that was the thing, I did that Bryan Brown and Rachel Ward- who have come over and was working over here, and they all said to me “Why don’t you come over, you’ll get work” and that’s what made me make the decision, because they had done it.

AW: You bring up ‘On the Beach’, I have a Q on it that I would like to mash-up with Liz and Dick, in ‘OTB’ you played Peter Holmes, who was previously played by the iconic actor Anthony Perkins, in ‘L&D’ you played an iconic Actor, Richard Burton, could you tell our readers about the differences in the steps you took to portray each character?

GB: In ‘OTB’ I kinda discarded the original, had to, David Williamson had done a complete re-write on it, and I’m a huge Williamson fan, I really wanted to honour his script, when I watched the original I felt depressed for them 2 (Perkins and presumably Gregory Peck) in those roles because it really wasn’t given an enormous amount of weight, it was all a bit “arch” for me, it was very strained looks, it looked like a Metamucil commercial. Not to say they weren’t fantastic actors but I just think the focus was very different in the original film’s script. Jackie (Jacqueline McKenzie) and I just came at it and went gang-busters together at what David put in front of us. I ignored Anthony Perkins’ performance and- I could, because I was given permission, and it was actually the best thing to do. If you’re going to remake something you have to make it your own, you can’t pay too much homage to who did it before you or else you won’t do your job properly. This was completely different than Liz & Dick; because for ‘L&D’ I had to go back and try my hardest to pay as much homage as I possibly could. As I was capable of, given the lead-up time, the shortness of the shoot, given everything that went on- and my own limitations- to do as good of a job as I could in honouring him (Burton), so they’re completely opposite.

AW:  That same year you began your role as host of ‘The Mole’, one of my all time favourite shows. I understand you requested not to be told of the Mole’s identity, out of the four seasons, how many of the pesky buggers did you guess before the reveal and how soon in?

GB: Just an interesting little link-up, you know I was asked to host ‘the Mole’ while I was shooting ‘OTB’, Grant Rule at 7 (Channel 7) – they had bought ‘OTB’ in Australia, and he came up to visit the submarine set, which was this very expensive set, and he pulled me aside and he said “Listen, we’ve got a show we want you to do”, and I said “oh, great, give me a call” and they told me what it was, and nobody had made Reality in Australia, and I said “I don’t even know what you’re talking about! Why would you want me, you want a host, somebody who’s done hosting!” and they said (GB puts on voice) “No, we want the opposite, we want somebody who can scare the crap outta them so they can’t figure out what they’re doing!” and I went “Oh, then I can do that”. So those 2 jobs are always linked for me, but, on ‘the Mole’… Yeah, no, he (Mole executive producer David Mason) always said to me “Do you wanna know? Do you wanna know?” and I’d say “Nup, don’t tell me, I wanna figure it out”, and doing what I did on the show, being in the centre of all that, I would figure it out eventually. How clever that makes me, I don’t know, because it’s a very privileged position to be in. Sooner or later it’d just become inevitable that I’d figure out who it was just by the nature of my place in the machine, more than any braininess or anything like that. But I enjoyed not knowing, and I’d get it wrong, constantly, before it became apparent to me. Which I always loved, because I think that’s the mark of a really intriguing show.

AW: I wonder, were there any times you tried to make the guilty party slip up, perhaps when speaking to them you’d try to catch them out on a lie?

GB: Nup, no, I was so in love with that concept and that format that if you do something like that you might jeopardize it, if you do it and anyone else is around or anyone catches on you’ve blown the whole thing.

AW: Would you ever like to see Channel 7 merge Amazing Race with the Mole- perhaps… the Amolezing Race, a globe trotting mystery?

GB: The Amazing Mole? The Mole Race? No, never.

AW: Fair enough, still on ‘TAR’ what is a typical day on the set like? Is there a lot of waiting around?

GB: The ‘Race’ is one thing or the other, the ‘Race’ is 98% wondering if you’re going to get to the next place on time, the consequence of it is the whole thing falls apart, so it’s always like the stress level that will kill you, and then the other 2% of the time: bored out of your brain and having no idea where they are. Sometimes they’ll all trip up at the same time and you stand there for 14 hours and then the whole thing explodes and you’ve got to get them  in, and the second you get them in you’re off again – the ‘Race’ is torture, it really is. Everybody earns their money on it, but I had so much fun on it… You get so sleep deprived and so crazy, living with no idea of what’s happening next. We giggle like school kids at the back of the bus, me and my crew. Honestly, we just crack up at the most ridiculous stuff, and cry laughing while we’re driving through the middle of Africa for two and a half hours and nobody able to talk or stand up because you’ve just been reduced to ash by this format. It’s always taken me a month to 6 weeks to recover from the race physically.

AW: So how do you fit this in with everything else that you’re doing? It’s obviously a big commitment.

GB: I’m not sure if I can anymore. I’ve always had a bit of a thing running where at any one point I’m usually doing 2, maybe 3 jobs in one form or another. I love staying busy, I love working, but it’s getting tougher and tougher to do that, I’m having to adjust. ‘Cause you know, the higher up the call sheet you go, and the bigger the project, the more people want you around to focus, and actually focus on that one thing. So I’m having to learn a new skill-set these days which is, you know; “this is my project and I commit to this” then, “now this is my project…” and just do things in a bit more of a linear fashion. 

AW: You’re known for hosting in Australia (as well as acting) and known for your acting in USA, do you ever feel like you’re leading a double life?

GB: No, every job I’ve had I’ve taken for my reasons, and I wouldn’t do it otherwise. There’s a couple of jobs you’ve mentioned in there that were, you know, feeding the kids, or coming back from the States broke and needing to rebuild. You always try to do the best job you can in a job but Actors are just people, sometimes you’ve gotta pay the bills or you’re in trouble. In terms of ‘the Mole’, that was one I didn’t need to do, I was just obsessed with the show, ‘TARau’ was just an opportunity to do ‘the Race’, and I’m so glad I’ve done that- and done it twice- which was incredible, I got to visit 30 countries and watch people run that race. People sometimes say to me “well are you an actor or a host?” None of your business, they ask me “are you Australian or NZ?” None of your business, I am what I am. I’m me, and, and… ‘the Mole’ intrigued me, ‘Amazing Race’ intrigued me, ‘Outrageous Fortune’ ‘True Blood’ intrigued me, ‘Liz and Dick’ intrigued, ‘Medivac’… and ‘Defiance’ intrigues me, and I don’t know what else makes them all fit together other than that I dug them.

AW: Was there ever a point back during something like ‘OF’ where you thought “Wow, I’m the luckiest man alive”- to have quantity AND quality?

GB: Yeah, absolutely, it’s funny because I’ve always been quite driven around work and I wanna do the best work I can, and I’ve been so lucky there’s always been another opportunity, and I’ve been lucky to get the amount of work, I’ve been really lucky to be given the quality of production I’ve been given. And then there’s another thing; you can walk into that and think “Great, I’ve been tapped on the shoulder”, or you can walk in and go “OK, this is an opportunity to get better” and you’re on your toes the whole time. I prefer the second. Every job is an opportunity to get much better at what I do and if there’s no opportunity, then it’s one to learn better at how other people do their job. But, I don’t see a finish, I don’t see any “OK, I’m on top of my game now, I’ll just clock off…” and I think that’s the other half of it, because if you’re Hungry, then you’re Excited, and if you’re Excited, people get Enthusiastic.

AW: I think that’s a brilliant note to end Part One on, with such a fruitful career and bright prospects for the future I look forward to the second half. Thank you kindly.

GB: Thanks, Aaron, enjoyed that, cheers.

Defiance premiers on SYFY channel, April 15^th- check your local guides for details.

Grant’s Twitter - @GrantBowler

Interview by Aaron Ware.

Celebrity Interview - Jane Espenson!

Collaborate-y Jane

This week I was afforded the honour of questioning the life and career of US Television Writer, Producer- and Creator, Jane Espenson. A veteran of the industry, Jane has occupied many ‘Writer’s Rooms’ with many more teams of writers. As her own “Star” shoots off into the proverbial- partly thanks to the success of her online series; Husbands the Series, Jane made this Aussie’s day recently when she took the time to revisit various highlights- and lowlights- of her eclectic career thus far, including the age old question; can she Sing?! Useless disclaimer: Certain words jump between US and UK/AUS spelling based on the speaker.

Aaron Ware: Thanks again for taking the time to talk with me; I'd like to turn back the clock, could you tell us a bit about young, school-yard Jane? Were you the quiet wall-flower or social butterfly?

  

Jane Espenson: Wallflower, absolutely.  I lived very much in my own head, read a lot, watched a lot of TV, spent a lot of time with my parents.  My best friend was much, much quieter and shyer and more intellectual than me, so I never thought of myself as terribly introverted compared to her, but I was absolutely on that end of the scale.

  

AW: Was it around that time that you started to take an interest in writing? Who were the people that inspired you to put pen to paper?

  

JE: I loved to read and my mom introduced me to Jane Austen pretty early while I was also reading spy thriller novels that my dad brought home from the library for himself.  But I also watched lots and lots of TV and that's where I saw myself fitting in.  The episodic TV thing, where you follow one set of characters through a potentially infinite series of stories – that encouraged me to make up my own stories in my head.  So it was ‘Welcome Back, Kotter’, more than ‘Pride and Prejudice’, that led to me wanting to write.

  

AW: Did this include a teenage crush on the Barbarino?

  

JE: Ha!  Definitely not.  I almost never liked the alpha lead of a show.  I liked the short funny guys -- Horshack forever.

  

AW: How much of your own childhood, your thoughts, feelings and experiences have you put into your writing? If any, could you name a particular moment/episode/scene that stood out?

  

JE: Hmm.  Well, Riley Finn, the character from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, is from Iowa because I am.  I was rewriting a scene very quickly – there was some kind of urgent need for it – and I didn't have time to make anything up, so I put an Iowa experience in there.  And sometimes if I'm looking to give a character a last name, I'll pull one from my elementary school, but that's tricky since the roster was pretty much: Espenson, Iverson, Johnson, Benson, Swenson...  Oh, and Dawn liked anchovies because I do.  But I think you're actually asking a much broader question to which the answer is "all of it."  I think our basic personalities are there from the start, and so everything I write is informed by who I have been since childhood – my take on the world, the traits I admire in people, my dislikes – they all find their way into the writing.

  

AW: Can/Does that also apply to dialogue, your own mannerisms in speech; would there be a character that has most sounded like you?

  

JE: Anya on Buffy sounds a lot like me -- there's a certain efficiency in her speech.  And Brady on Husbands, probably.  I think the character that's funny because they're a little bit literal, that's often me speaking.

  

AW: Having been motivated by the very idea in your youth, TV series such as MASH and Star Trek accepted unsolicited submissions for scripts. Do you think that's an avenue that modern productions should attempt, as a way of keeping their audience hooked and involved- Or do you think the sheer numbers of submission would be a turn-off for any series?

  

JE: My memory that MASH did this is entirely based off an interview I read when I was 12, so I'm not entirely sure about that.  Star Trek: TNG and later Trek incarnations did this, but not with the intention of producing the scripts.  The scripts were samples used to select writers to come in and pitch episode ideas.  This was useful for an idea-driven show with a long history that had depleted its store of in-house ideas, but probably not very useful for any other kind of show.  A character-driven show with a complicated story arc and a busy room, bursting with ideas already, would be slowed down by pulling writers from the room to hear pitches for other ideas.  And I bet that on many shows a lot of prospective writers would come in with overlapping ideas, which could be a legal nightmare.  For a certain kind of show, outside pitches could work well, but not for most of the shows that are working right now.

  

AW: Still within the area, with the communal aspect of the Internet and the oft-fast turnaround of many shows (Glee for example) do you think we'll ever see a long-running show on USA TV that is audience influenced- plot points, characters, cast etc. from voting online? Reality shows aside, of course.

  

JE: Oh, perhaps, but I dearly hope not.  Having that kind of control sounds like fun, but imagine a roller coaster where you dictate each turn or swoop before it happens.  I think you get beautiful shows like Battlestar and Buffy when you're treated to the singular vision of a smart creator.  I think a ship without a pilot won't have the same soul.

AW: Memory recalls an Aussie show called Fat Cow Motel, but I'm unsure of it's depth of interaction. In a way, it's a little bit along the lines of officially read/produced Fan-Fiction, was that something you enjoyed as a teenager? If not, what would be a TV-Show or Film that would've, even; would now inspire you to write fan-fic?

JE: The internet has made fan-fiction much more of a phenomenon.  I have no trouble with it – after all, writing stories based on characters I didn't create is how I make my living.  If I wasn't writing for Once, I imagine I might be somewhere writing Once fan-fic. Romantic stories are a great fit for fan-fic because the prose style lets you get into the characters' inner voices in a way you don't in a script.

AW: Speaking of the Fans, your past work in iconic, cult shows such as Buffy have afforded you a very loyal fan-base, many of whom you would meet at Conventions; what has been your most heart-warming moment meeting a fan so far?

JE: Oh, there are so many.  Recently, I've been out meeting the fans of Husbands (HusbandsTheSeries.com), the online show I created with Brad Bell.  That's a really heartwarming experience because here's this show that's a very pure representation of what we set out to do, and the fans who love it really connect with us.  Initially our audience was very female, but in the last year it's really diversified and our favorite thing is when we meet someone who says her boyfriend or husband found the show first.  That's lovely.

AW: That sort of fan reaction to Husbands must be the ultimate validation, especially given season 1 was self-financed, then the Kickstarter campaign for season 2- Is it the type of moment that makes you sit back and think "Wow, I'm so glad I followed my gut instinct!" - What goes through your mind during a moment like that?

JE: Well, my good gut instinct was to listen to Brad Bell, who has a great sense of story and also of the shape of things to come.  I knew as soon as we landed on the idea of a newlywed comedy that the content would be good, but it wasn't until that season two Kickstarter that I knew for sure that we had reached people in the way we'd hoped to.  Looking back, I'm so thrilled that we made Husbands – from the very beginning I kept using the phrase "a show that deserves to exist," and I believe it.  It's been an adventure and a half.

AW: How would you describe Husbands the Series to the uninitiated?

JE: I like to just say it's a newlywed comedy and then let them gradually put together that both the newlyweds are men.  It's a very traditional comedy – very funny, very romantic, and the whole point of it is that every new couple makes the same mistakes.  In the end it all comes down to the love.  It's a very sweet story.  Brad Bell and Sean Hemeon, along with Alessandra Torresani are the core cast and they're amazing.

AW: The character of Brady (played by Sean Hemeon) is a recently 'out' Baseball player, was giving him such an -for lack of a better term- 'alpha male' occupation a deliberate choice to help bring home the message of Equality? Even today in 2012 there aren't as many openly Gay sportsmen as what there could be if many were comfortable in 'coming out'?

JE: Well, yes, we liked the idea of an out athlete because that would highlight that scarcity, but actually we were more focused on making a career choice for Brady that would generate the most diverse story options.  If they were both actors, or even both performers, we would run the danger of having their issues be too similar.  This way, we could tell stories that started from Brady’s unusual situation in a way that would be sure to be charged and full of conflict.  Which is exactly what we did draw on as the starting point for season two.

AW: We've all recently enjoyed the Husbands comic series, published through our friends at Dark Horse Comics, if you could translate Husbands into a Broadway musical, which actors would you have playing the parts?

JE: The same ones!  Sean, Brad and Alessandra can do anything!

 

AW: Will we get a DVD/Blu-Ray release?

JE: YES!  We are getting ready to make Husbands DVDs available!  Anyone who follows @TeamHusbands will be kept up to date on things like that.

AW: What sort of special features can fans look forward to? Do you find you have less or more deleted scenes being in control of your own project?

JE: We will have special features – an interview with Joss, all our backstage footage, even a thing or two that hasn’t been seen yet.  We didn’t have any deleted scenes – we cut and trimmed the material in the normal way.  The editing process was very similar to other projects I’ve been on – you keep trimming until the very best moments are left.

AW: Husbands was the first online show to be hosted at the Paley Center.  Fan reaction aside, can you tell us what that meant to yourself and Brad?

JE: It was huge.  We felt incredibly honored.  They set up a gorgeous screening and event for us and we were grinning all night long.  Ben and Jerry supplied free ice cream – it was a glorious launch for season two.  I think Brad and I really looked at each other that night with a sense that this was a whole new deal – so much bigger than season one had been.

AW: With having full control of your own product, was there any times writing/developing that you found yourselves crossing the censorship line? Can you share with us anything juicy that was omitted?

JE: I don't think we've ever omitted anything for that reason, but we moved something.  There's a punch line, "no gag reflex," in season two, that used to occur much earlier in the script.  It was our brilliant director and EP Jeff Greenstein who suggested that it might be a little off-putting so early in the story before the viewers were invested in the characters.  We saw that he was right and reordered some events.

AW: Who would be among your ultimate guest stars for Husbands?

JE: Well, we were already so thrilled to get Joss Whedon and Jon Cryer and Mekhi Phifer and the rest... It's hard to imagine anything better.  I guess I'd love to give them a cadre of out celebrity friends – Johnny Weir and NPH and Jesse Tyler Ferguson... that would be fun!

AW: Does your writing style change - writing for something that is very quick-witted, but also in such short form, compared to writing for shows such as your current hit, Once Upon A Time?

JE: Well, sitcoms rely on what are called "hard jokes," – set-up followed by punch line, and almost every line is either one or the other.  In an hour drama that pace would feel forced.  But other than the density of the jokes, I think it's very much the same.  You're still listening to the characters' voices and finding the rhythm of the scene and making it all as emotionally true as you can.

AW: It's my knowledge that there wasn't as many hidden messages within Buffy- even Joss' work altogether- than his fans seem to find; OUAT seems to be littered with them- Are as many deliberately placed by the production team as have been spotted? I realize a lot has to do with the connection to LOST, something which seemed to have equal parts deliberate and mistaken hidden messages.

JE: If people do see more than we intended, are they wrong, or are they spotting things our subconscious impulses make us do?

AW: Suddenly I feel discombobulated; Coming up with those moments at the writer's table - even the more intricate plot connections; is there a sense of "Light bulb above the head" - or does having a room full of writers take away that almost-self-surprised element?

JE: Not at all – it isn’t lost at all.  It happens all the time that one person at the table will have that insightful moment and will solve everything all at once.  That’s why it’s so useful to have a full staff; you maximize your chances of a light bulb moment.

AW: Was it your idea to put Buffy's Scythe in Rumplestiltskin's collection?

JE: Yep.  That was me.

 AW: Nice work! If you could cross-over OUAT with another, completely unrelated show, which characters would you have the most fun uniting?

JE: Hm.  Well, Once is already built on crossing characters over – it's our premise, but it sure would be fun to see the Husbands guys move to town!

AW: The cross-over of F'tale characters is what inspired the question- Would Brady and Cheeks befriend our heroine Snow White, or would they swing towards the dark side?

JE: I think Brady would love Snow White.  Cheeks… I can see him more likely to team up with Regina.  But I’m sure they’d work through it as a couple.

AW: Heroic TV characters, especially ones with a shady moral compass, still (mostly) end up with their happy endings each episode- is there ever the urge to write negative outcomes for characters that are loved by the fans- or perhaps just 'too nice'? Tara in Buffy was one moment where we were delivered that, but are there instances when you're writing that you get that urge to teach them a definite lesson or two?

JE: Hm – I can think of many, many episodes where you give the hero a disastrous ending.  Overcoming those moments is what makes them a hero.  In terms of punishing the nice – I'm reminded of Melanie in Gone with the Wind -- I guess that's a thing a writer can do.  But of course it was the writer who chose to make them nice in the first place!  Moral complexity is generally something you want your characters to have.  If I had a character who was "too nice," I'd sooner write them a little more complicated than kill them.  But that's not the only reason to kill a character.

AW: I guess I'm reminded of Buffy- in the end she may have saved the day, but you guys certainly made it difficult for her along the way; - Angel, Riley, Spike- the arch with Faith didn't really have the happiest of outcomes until she returned rehabilitated- Was there many arguments about "No! Stop! She's can't take anymore!" in the writer's room, or was the trust in Joss too strong though her roller-coaster ride?

JE: I trust Joss, always.  And the more a character overcomes, the bigger the victory.

AW: Still on Buffy, If you were tasked with creating a new Slayer- What would her name be, and what would she be like?

JE: In fact, I just did this.  His name is Billy and he’s the first male Slayer.  He wasn’t “chosen,” isn’t part of the Slayer mythology, but has made that choice himself.  He’s very brave and was inspired by so many young men who have told me how the Buffy saga helped them.

AW: Of course! Billy! You've mentioned previously that working on BTVS was an excellent training ground- with lessons each writer took into their future work; What would be the device/lesson you've most commonly used?

JE: The best advice from Joss is to always know why you’re telling the story.  To know what you’re saying with the story.  That is absolutely crucial and I take it with me to every project.

AW: The following Joss' work gained through BTVS seemed to be the first time in a while that the writer's room seemed to be receiving as much attention as the actors- Did that feel like it was the case on your side of the proverbial fence? That the writer's room suddenly gained a mass of fans and respect?

JE: Absolutely, the Buffy writers were recognized and celebrated by the fans.  Part of this, I think, was that Joss was a very early adopter of the kind of fan contact you now have routinely over Twitter.  There were online message boards at a site called The Bronze, and there was even a yearly party where we could go meet the fans.  But even without this, I think science fiction and fantasy fans are more aware of the writers, of the whole process, than a lot of fans in other genres, so a certain amount of curiosity about us was natural.  And wonderful – my life has been vastly enriched through contact with viewers.

AW: When hearing audience reactions- which do you most enjoy; having made people Laugh, Cry or Hide-in-Fear?

JE: Laugh.  I love to make people laugh.  That’s my fave by far.

AW: Ditto; What characters have been your least favourite to write for?

JE: The more complex a character, the harder they are to write for, since their reactions are more nuanced and hard to predict.  Buffy was a very, very complicated character who was a lot harder to write than, say, Anya.  It’s hard to call someone “least favorite” when writing for them is pure joy, but she was certainly a challenge sometimes through her sheer number of layers.

AW: As a writer, how do you feel about 'Spoilers'? Once upon a time we were able to watch Buffy and be surprised weekly, 10 or so years later and it seems no matter the twist, a preview or social media user will spoil the plot-point; does that ever get frustrating or does it make you want to work harder to shock/surprise us?

JE: It’s frustrating – to the viewers and us.  I think you do have to work harder, to make stronger misleads, and to avoid being led by the fans instead of leading them.  It’s all harder, but the trade off is getting to see the genuine reactions in the moment, and right now I think it’s a trade off worth making.

AW: Long-term employ aside, you've written 1 or 2 scripts for a number of shows such as The OC and Dinosaurs (nerdvana for me), is there any series which you would still actively consider yourself a fan of?

JE: Game of Thrones, I’d say.  What a wonderful show!  I was very fortunate to have been involved.

AW: I’ve still yet to get through the pilot of GoT! Warehouse 13 is another show you've created, that has also received a cult following- any word on a 5th season?

JE: I was only involved in the pilot, the show marches along very well without me.  I don’t get any inside word on developments like renewals.

AW: Oh, well there you go, we’ll move on then to an upcoming project; can you tell us anything about Star Wars: Detours?

JE: Sure!  I was invited to get involved by old buddy Seth Green and it was a magical adventure!  It was incredible getting to write for the iconic characters whom I’d loved since I was ten years old.  There’s nothing like writing a bit of dialog for Han Solo to make you very happy with your life.

AW: If you could pick any actor, living or deceased, to devise a television series for- Who would you pick, and what would the show be like?

JE: Brad Bell.  And it would be Husbands.  He’s a very talented actor – he has that trick of making a performance look absolutely effortless, but when you’re in the editing room you can look carefully and see all the little things he’s doing.

AW: What would be on your ultimate Road-Trip Mix CD?

JE: A lot of Weird Al Yankovic.  And audio books.  I love to be read to!

AW: I am right there with you on both of those! Any desire to move into live theatre? Your quick witted style would be highly suited to Musicals as well as Plays.

JE: I love the theater and adore musicals, but TV is what I grew up watching and it’s really very much my love.

AW: OUAT is Disney made, or at least supported- how much closer are we to hearing Lana Parrilla belt out something like Poor Unfortunate Souls in a Musical episode? I know it's been asked before- I am very much anticipating it!

JE: Musical episodes are amazing.  They are very difficult to do.

AW: Are you much of a singer yourself?

JE: Not at all.  There’s a reason that Buffy writers Marti Noxon and David Fury are in the Buffy musical and I am very much not.

AW: Are there any musicals you're a fan of?

JE: Into the Woods is amazing.  Book of Mormon.  And all the old MGM movie musicals, too.

AW: I should have seen Into the Woods coming! Finally; If there was a Musical written about the life of Jane Espenson, what would it be called, what style of music would it be in, and who would you like to play you?

JE: Oof.  That sounds awful.  I can’t imagine anything more uncomfortable!  I guess it would be all bubblegum pop and novelty songs starring Bernadette Peters and called “An Anagram for Openness” in reference to my last name.

Husbands the Series – Watch for FREE now at www.HusbandsTheSeries.com

Check your local listings for Once Upon A Time

You can find Jane on Twitter HERE

Interview by Aaron Ware

Celebrity Interview - Jane Caro

Celebrity Jane

New to the world of 'Celebrity', Jane Caro is a strong, out-spoken figure in the Australian media. Her many accomplishments lend her a number of titles too great for this swift introduction. At the beginning of our exposure to Jane, we had no idea the influential role model she would become to many Australians, through her numerous stints on popular shows such as Sunrise, Mornings and the very popular Gruen series, as well as her many public speaking events. These were merely our form of exposure, it was her ability of ripping a killer sound-byte that turned up our ears and spoke to- or for- us which got Australians to sit up and take notice. Whilst we know a lot of Jane and her political views, I was humbled recently to be given the chance to further share with you all the woman behind the passionate voice- her thoughts and feelings on the wide world of pop-culture, and if she likes being a role model.

Aaron Ware: We’ll start off with young Jane, coming to Australia, young, wide-eyed; can you tell us a bit more, any memories from then?

Jane Caro: My parents were really taking the risk there, and it was my Father who had been transferred with the company he had worked for… My mother was always game for an adventure so… we all came!

AW: You’ve confessed to having the ‘soul of an old gossip’, has that always been the case?

JC: Ah, yes, I do. I think so, I really enjoy people, they’re what interest me. And gossip is just a nasty way of putting down talk of people and their relationships and the way they live… Because it tends to be what women like to talk about, and that’s often despised. But I actually think, gossip, talk about people and how they live, what they do, is the soul of what it is to be human.

AW: Always gives me a bit of satisfaction. You work and meet a lot of interesting and famous people; does that make the gossip just that little bit more interesting?

JC: Oh, I supposed it does, except I’m a bit on the outside of that, its not like- yes, I meet lots of well known people, but I don’t have lots of friends that are particularly well known, and so often they’ll be gossiping about things and I’ll feel totally naïve. “Oh I didn’t know that!” “Are they really doing that?!” Because I’m a bit of a newcomer to this celebrity circuit, so I actually prefer the kind of gossip that’s about why people are doing what they’re doing, who they are…

AW: People you know personally?

JC: Yeah. Like talking to my friends about an event, and who was at it, and somebody who did something a little surprising, and why that might be, and how we feel about it, and… I find that kind of stuff fascinating.

AW: I find that helps with writing, building characters and their reactions to moments in the plot.

JC: Yeah, and also I like to understand, I like to get underneath…I like to… speculate about what’s the motivation, to be honest, I think that… My Grandmother used to say, to know everything is to understand everything, in other words, if you knew the whole story of a person, you understand why they did that seemingly inexplicable thing. I’m always interested in motivations, why did they do that? What caused them to feel about the world that way.

AW: Then you would have made a good lawyer.

JC: (laughs) If only I could have borne all that study…. Which I couldn’t.

AW: Tell me about it. You’ve described your teen years as quite rebellious; can you share some gossip from those days? Shaved head? Piercings?

JC: No, it was a little bit before that… I was just a terrible flirt. I loved flirting, I loved… I wasn’t actually a very brave teenager, I didn’t actually like to do anything illegal, but I was pretty good at pretending I might actually like to do something illegal without actually doing anything.

AW: Talking the talk.

JC: Exactly, and that fine like between being naughty and nice to be accepted by your peers as kind of cool and not a goodie-two-shoes, but not so naughty that I upset my parents and teachers.

AW: (laughs) that’s probably what I should have done instead of upsetting everybody. Do you have any gossip on former school mate, current Sunrise host, David Koch?

JC: Oh, Well, David and I went to school together, we were in the same year and um, we weren’t exactly friends because we hung out in different groups, but we certainly knew each other. It’s funny because he was the tallest boy in school, and I was the shortest girl, so that was a bit difficult in terms of just standing there talking to each other was always a bit awkward. But he was a really nice guy; he was exactly like he is now…

AW: A big dag?

JC: Yeah! The Big Dag. That’s what he was like, and I think that's a real compliment to him that he hasn’t changed.

AW: What would you say are the personality traits that have been cemented in you from your high school days?

JC: Very important thing from my high school days was when I was in primary school; I was a bit of a pain in the neck. I was, um, I used to read big books and adult books and use long words and I was one of those precocious, you know Manny in Modern Family? That kind of irritatingly, unnaturally ‘adult’ kind of child. And I was very unpopular with my peers as a result. I didn’t mean to be, but I was, so when I was moving from PS to HS, I consciously thought “how could I not be so irritating to my peers?” And I kind of worked out I needed to not use long words, I could still read big books, still be into what I was into, I just didn’t have to talk about it to my friends…

AW: You learned self control?

JC: Exactly, But I also learned how to pitch what I wanted to say in a way that the people I was talking to could hear it. I learned that… You can’t just go and say things the way you do in this environment and that environment and just except everybody to catch on, So I had to learn how to ‘pitch it’. So I swore and I hitched my skirt up, and I smoked cigarettes, I was a bit of a naughty girl – But I was still at home reading my Victorian social novels, and still interested in politics and all that kind of stuff, but I just learned who to talk about it with, and how to talk about it… And how to… How to have my own ideas but not threaten everybody with them. I really think that was… Some people might now call that “dumbing down”, I don’t see it as that, I think that was an incredibly important lesson.

AW: I see that as “Knowing your audience”.

JC: Yeah, and sort of a lesson in humility, if you want to talk to people you have to

think about how they’re going to respond to it, what their lives are like and you know, where they’re coming from, instead of just poncing around imposing your own style on everyone.

AW: Which a surprising amount of people do nowadays, unfortunately… Moving on, you went into University slightly on the “Right Wing” of politics…

JC: Oh, yes, you see my parents were in business, both stood for pre-selection for the Liberal party, fortunately neither of them won, but they got quite close, so you know, free enterprise, capitalism that kind of thing was very much a part of my family’s political background. I guess you could describe them at that time as being ‘Socially-Wet” my mother was a mad feminist, and economically dry. So that’s the way I went to university. I did English Literature, because that’s what I was interested in, but I didn’t want to teach, I had no interest in being a teacher, so people said what are you going to do? I said “oh I might get into advertising” and in the ‘70s, that was like saying you wanted to have babies.  So yeah, that was an interesting experience.

AW: Was it then getting into advertising what swung you over to the “Left Wing”?

JC: To be honest, I don’t think that my political views have changed so much, I actually think that I’m pretty much where I was then. I think if you were to describe my political views, I’m a classic, old fashioned John Stuart Mills liberal. I’m still economically on the dry side, socially-wet. But what I’ve seen is the world march past me to the right, so that I’ve basically stood still, when I was young, the world was much more left wing than it is now, and now the world is much more right. I’m considered radical left wing I’m practically a Marxist, purely and simply because I support public education.

When I was at school that wasn’t a particular left wing point of view, that was pretty mainstream, so, that would be my argument; that I haven’t changed much.

AW: Well, there you go! You said once that you had wanted to be an actor… What would have been your ultimate roles?

JC: (Thinks about it) Elizabeth I, I would have loved to play her… Jane Eyre… That sort of thing… Miriam Margolyes, she has the sort of career I would have loved.

AW: How about someone like Buffy or Wonder Women, even Ripley? Someone “Kick-Ass”? Would you have…

JC: No, no, I can’t see myself as an action hero, too much punching and hitting, sticking your leg high in the air, too exhausting for me. I’m much more your mental athlete not your physical one.

AW: Did you ever do the amateur theatre circuit?

JC: I did, I was in one production, I was in quite a few university revues. Being fairly well endowed I always played the bosom-y females, had a lot of fun doing that.

AW: What show did you do?

JC: Oh, I can’t even remember, it was some British farce, I played the maid, it wasn’t particularly exciting. It cured me, I gave it away after that.

AW: (laughs) Where do you think you’d be today if you followed that path?

JC: Probably starving in a garage and very disappointed!

AW: I was expecting waiting tables.

JC: Exactly, I think being an actor in Australia, particularly being a woman and an actor in Oz, unless you’re incredibly beautiful, is unbelievably hard. Because… there’s just not the parts.

AW: Unfortunately so… What are some of your favourite films?

JC: Somebody else asked this the other day… Cabaret’s one of my all-time favourite films, I must admit. Now Voyager, which I absolutely love, Bette Davis. Paul Henreid…  Oh I loved Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy… I see lots of films that I really, really enjoy, but I particularly think I enjoy films that allow you the audience to interpret them where they expect you to keep up rather than constantly telling you stuff. And I’m also not crazy about films that just want to entertain you, there needs to be something else. And I think that’s one of the things I like about Cabaret, it does it so well. Apart from the great songs, there’s a darkness to it, an underbelly, that I really like.

AW: It’s even gloomier on stage.

JC: I bet, and Chicago, I really liked Chicago actually.

AW: A pop-culture advertising curve-ball Question, if you could have controlled the promotional campaign for the Blair Witch Project, what do you think you would have done differently?

JC: I don’t think I would have done anything differently,  as an advertising campaign it was superbly successful, but it suffered from so many things that great ad campaigns suffer from- the campaign was just way better than what it was advertising.

AW: It’s held up somewhat, that baby crying gives me the willies.

JC: Oh well, I don’t think I would have done anything differently, they took a tiny low budget film and made it apart of popular culture, people still know about it, talk about it, quote it. And I think, yeah, well done.

AW: Do you think with that “found footage” fad it’s created, audiences have maybe grown a bit too weary of that sort of thing? With so many Paranormal Activities, has the gimmick maybe worn off?

JC: Well, I think if something’s a gimmick it’ll only last for a short time, so if it’s probably only one or two films then it’s done, but I think you can take just about any subject and create  a fantastic piece of communication around it and there’s no reason these Paranormal stuff can’t make a great film– but it needs to be more than just scaring you,, making you feel uneasy. There needs to be some other element, some more serious reasons for making the movie and then why couldn’t it work? Anything can work if done well.

AW: There are no bad ideas, just bad films?

JC: Yeah, there are no bad… Well, there are bad ideas, but there are no bad subjects.

AW: Uh-huh, much better way to put it. We’ll move onto advertising properly, I believe you got your start in advertising with Australian author Bryce Courtney?

JC: No, Bryce Courtney just helped me to get a job by encouraging me and forcing me to write ads, but he didn’t hire me.

AW: He sort of opened a window/door for you?

JC: Yeah, he certainly encouraged and was a mentor, helped me to get my first job. So yeah, I got in when it was really hard for women to get in. I was lucky because people knew who my father was so that certainly helped and it still does. You’ll get a hearing when some other poor kid wouldn’t. I was really pleased and creative seemed to suit me because I had spent a long time being bad at a series of other jobs.

AW: I know that feeling. Still on Courtney, did you ever come full circle and write any campaigns for any of his books?

JC: No, to be honest with you I really, really enjoyed his book April Fool’s Day which was about his Son who had acquired AIDS but I haven’t yet been able to read any his other books.

AW: Which of some of your own previous advertising projects have you really enjoyed working on?

JC: I used to work for New South Wales Police, and I really like an ad campaign I did there to combat domestic violence, I was really proud of that. I worked with the NRMA and did a few ads that I’m very proud of, a television commercial that I think is very terrific. Some print ads as well that I’m very proud of.

AW: What would be your biggest advertising blunders?

JC: Oh, I’ve done so many I can’t even think of them. I’ve done really bad ads, I’ve put forward terrible briefs.

AW: So no spectacular disasters?

JC: No, no.

AW: Are you like me and talk sassily back to the really patronizing commercials that speak at us, not to us?

JC: Oh yeah, I can’t bare them and there’s so many like that now. Everybody’s gotten really frighten and they won’t trust the audience to understand. So there’s all these people yabbering at us and you know, save your money, none of those ads are working. I always tell my students not to start an ad with a rhetorical question, you know “Sick? Of looking for Cold solutions?” because everybody’s going to go  “No”.

AW: What long or longish running campaign, Coles’ ‘Down Down’ aside, would you love to erase from Earth’s history?

JC: So many, anything by Real Funerals or Real Insurance, and all infomercials.

AW: (laughs) That lady telling us not to tell her age bugs me!

JC: That’s right… And that guy who’s like (puts on Aussie ‘ocker’ voice) “LOSE WEIGHT TODAY!” B\No, just can’t bare it.

AW: I’ve noticed you have an interesting taste in music, not unlike a lot of my own, what songs would be on your ultimate Road Trip Mix-CD?

JC: Well... Eyes of Lucy Jordan by Marianne Faithful, in fact anything by her… Any Rolling Stones song ever… Bobby Gentry- the Ballad of Bobby Joe- one of my all time favourites, love it. Anything by Lou Reed; Shiny; Walk on the Wild Side is probably my least favourite, Perfect Day, oh you, just anything by Lou Reed, Berlin. Who else do I love? Bowie, just about anything by Bowie; definitely starting with Heroes which is my all-time favourite Bowie song, I’m stuck in the 70s a bit, my youth.

AW: I’m stuck in decades I wasn’t even alive in… You love “story songs”, what would be the title of the Jane Caro “story song” be?

JC: Oh, crikey! Um, I’m not sure… (thinks)… I did give my Sister-in-law a book once; Getting In-Touch With Your Inner Bitch, I quite like that, she needed it, she was so nice… Something like ‘Straight-Talking Woman’, I think I do, say what I think!

AW: That’s the way I see it. Would this imply also that you dig show-tunes for that story-in-song element, the exposition compositions?

JC: I do like some show-tunes, Cabaret obviously, because they do tend to tell a tale, which I really do enjoy; Porgy and Bess- I love all that. I’m not such a fan of the really big… I love Chicago, because that also tells a real story and I love the darkness of it. I think I like  Country and Western a bit more. When I was young I hated it, it was the daggiest stuff in the world but now I actually  love it, the whole telling a tale and just… I love that lovely old, I think it was Tammy Wynette with My D-I-V-O-R-C-E Came Final  Today, I just love that.

AW: What would be in your top 3 musicals?

JC: Cabaret would definitely be there, and I suppose ‘Chicago’ would be one of the others… I do really, really like ‘Oklahoma’, I think because of ‘the dark’ that whole Pore Jud Is Daid- I really do love the darkness of all that.

AW: I have seen the movie of Oklahoma 100 times but never the stage production.

JC: Never seen it on stage either.

AW: You’ll should look out for the one with Hugh Jackman on DVD.

JC: Hugh Jackman just doesn’t do it for me, sorry to say, I like Mrs Partridge and Howard Keel, the old Hollywood run.

AW: You’re one of the directors of Bell Shakespeare Company, that’s quite a brilliant position to be in, is there any plays you are hankering for them to produce?

JC: That’s a very interesting question… They have already produced a lot of the plays I would hanker… I would like them to run ‘The Merchant of Venice’ again, because Portia is such a fascinating character, and Shylock, he takes a lot of stereotypes and deals with them in interesting ways. ‘As You Like It’ would be another interesting one, but they produced that quite recently, and this year I have to say I completely loved their production of ‘The Duchess of Malfi’ which not a lot of people saw but absolutely fantastic John Webster play.

AW: You’re great at selling an idea, any desire to dip your toes into Directing?

JC: I would love to, but I don’t think I have the skills to do something like that so I’ll put my creative energies and continue to do so into writing novels... Because in a way that’s what you’re doing in a novel.

AW: What about plays?

JC: I’ve got an idea for a play. I don’t know, maybe! I’ve got a few books to write first. I think what I really like about writing books, having worked in advertising all my life is the novelist controls the novel, nobody comes in and re-interprets it, the reader does. But it’s a direct conversation between the author and the reader. Whereas when you direct a play, there are actors and all sorts of things between you and the audience and it’s the same with writing them. As with advertising as a writer you really don’t have a lot of control, it all gets moved away, and I think that’s what makes writing a novel so dreamy for an old copywriter is that it’s Me and the Reader, and I love that.

AW: You’ve said that you despise the word Aspire…

JC: I hate it.

AW: Does it make you laugh that people aspire to follow in your footsteps?

JC: (laughs) Oh, yes! (laughs) And I think; No, no, follow in your own, that’s all I ever I did. It’s really very lovely and quite surprising and I really appreciate some of the wonderful things people say to me, it’s really nice. Though I do think everyone should follow their own footsteps- Sometimes people come say “Can I have a coffee and pick your brain about ‘I wanna change my life’” and I ask “What is your plan?” - “I never had a plan”…

AW: …Oh…

JC: I just talked about what I believed in and used my skills as best I could to promote the things I thought were important and needed someone getting in behind them and lo and behold, it kind of worked. It may not have worked terribly well for the causes yet but it kind of worked in getting attention. So my view is always to follow your own starter, don’t aspire to be anything other than who you are.

AW: Awesome advice, What fictional role-models would you say are great for present day Women and Children.

JC: What a wonderful opportunity to plug my book about Queen Elizabeth the First.

AW: She’s not fictional!

JC: No, no, she’s not a fictional character but I’ve made her into one, because it’s written in her voice. Talking about her life and her experiences, how she survived and all of that so it qualifies… Also I’ve never met the woman she’s been dead for 500 years. So I’d say that ‘s one, but there’s so many fictional characters that women and girls can really relate to. Simple ones like ‘Anne of Green Gables’ and Jo in ‘Little Women’ and I’ve always loved Mary Lennox in ‘the Secret Garden’… She’s sour faced and stamps her feet and I’ve always loved kids like that. She’s not perfect- ‘Jane Eyre’, always just wonderful, Maggie Tulliver from ‘the Mill on the Floss’, just so many women girls that are strong, feisty but vulnerable and not perfect.

AW: How about modern day fictional role models?

JC: (thinks… for a while) … (and some more) See, I don’t really read books in that same way any more so there’s none that really stick out in my mind… Uh, any in particular I think… In a novel… No, I’m stuck on that one… I don’t really look at characters as role models any more just as interesting characters.

AW: How about Hermione Granger?

JC: Nyeh, I’m not really into the Harry Potters, it’s Ok…

AW: (looks at himself) I’m obsessed.

JC: Hermione’s ok, but she’s a bit of a smarty pants… And Emma Watson can’t act… She’s a bit wooden. I’m sure she can now she’s grown up but it was just a bit… Oh she’s smarter than the boys but she’s still not the hero, I get a bit bored of that, marketing, it’s all marketing. She (JK Rowling) did it because if you’ve got a female hero, boys won’t buy the book.

AW: I guess that’s the same as the circumstance with Joanne Rowling’s initials.

JC: Exactly, so the whole thing annoys me really.

AW: Is there any fictional characters/real people that you personally relate to?

JC: Well there’s plenty of characters and people that I relate to and I feel that I understand, not comparing myself to them, that they inspire me; Florence Nightingale, who has been utterly trivialized but was in fact just an extraordinary powerhouse,  and revolutionized sanitation which nobody really knows about but that’s what she did… Mary Wollstonecraft, obviously, and Mary Shelley, her daughter.  (thinks) Oh, Hilary Clinton who I’ve always admired. Ever since she came out in the early days and said about Bill Clinton, when she said; “Well I’m no Tammy Wynette” who stands by her man. Mind you she ended up, that she was, but I just loved it when she said that, was just feisty and fierce, uncompromising thing to say.

AW: What other projects have you got in the works?

JC: Well, I’m just finishing a book written with three other authors which is called ‘For God’s Sake’; an Atheist -that’s me, a Christian, a Muslim and Jew battle it out. And we’ll be looking at different philosophical perspectives from our own world view and discussing with one another why we see it the way we see it. That’ll be out next year through Pan MacMillan. Then I’ve got a contract to write a sequel to ‘Just A Girl’, called Just A Queen. Which will be Elizabeth I and the day she found out she was the head of Mary Queen of Scots, and she has a kind of walking nervous breakdown which is historically accurate. And it’s looking back on how she ended up doing the things she said she’d never do.

AW: There’s not yet an audio book version of Just A Girl, who would be your ultimate three choices to read the audio versions?

JC: I’ll start with myself, for the frustrated actor in me- I think I’d do a good job; otherwise Cate Blanchett, obviously, but for a young – it would be nice to get a young person, a 25 year old to do it… Mia Wasikowska.

AW: Would you want to write the screenplay for JAG if it ever happens?

JC: I would love for that to happen.

AW: Let’s put it out in the universe.

JC: There’s been so many movies of Elizabeth so it’s pretty unlikely. I would love to write it, happily, having written so many commercials I’m ballsy enough to think I can do it myself.

AW: Awesome, go for it! As an out-spoken  Atheist, if you could create a holiday for the Christmas period, how would it be?

JC: Well, it would involve copious amounts of food and alcohol and Men would do all the work.

AW: Hey! One last question; What would your drag name be?

JC: What would my drag name be? I don’t know! My daughter has a friend who’s a drag queen; Kitty Litter… (thinks about it) Lucy Girdle.

AW: Perfect. Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me today.

JC: My pleasure, thanks!

(I know that it was all mine- AW)

You can find Jane's books at Amazon.com HERE

Jane herself can be found on Twitter HERE

Interviewed by Aaron Ware.